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IvanThaDriver
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 1340
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 Posted: Tue Aug 09, 05:42 |
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There are people complaining about wheel steering lag in RBR... I suffered it too. Now it's cause has been revealed and will be burnt and buried  The main problem is this :
... (introduction)
We have steering filters in RBR controls menu (look at "Filters - what's it all about" file attachment - this is an example). They are supposed to refine our steering behaviour to what we like - curvatures modify, let's say, wheel or pedals input and allow progressive output... you get it  "Rise rate" and "Fall rate" are supposed for 1 / 0 input devices (eg keyboard) - ON or OFF. We can set rise rate to 5.0 for instance, and it will work this way that it will simulate smooth progressive output (brakes won't go 100% while pressing "down" key for example). It isn't supposed to be used for analog devices, like steering wheels. "Axis" filter menu is for analog devices (wheels) and "Digital Button" is for ... well ... button devices. Keyboard, old joystick, stoneage pad and so on and so on  Everything is nice - BUT !
...
the game uses both menus data simultaneously !  I don't know why, but it is like this, no matter what we play with. So - when you have your own steering axis filter setting (including speed fade simulating a smart powersteering system - the faster you go, the more loose and forgiving the steering becomes in brief explaination - look at attached picture for an example) it isn't the only setting used  RBR will use digital button filter setting too using both of them at once - in fact one filter menu overlaps with another. Mess, isn't it?
Anyway - for good steering I advice turning fade function completely off by filling maximum fade bar full with red boxes, saturation to non and setting rates to instant . The problem was that I used to do it only in axis filter menu - not enough! - now it should be set in digital button menu too! - take a look at attached pictures. Ditto  The grande finale is simple, but effects are worth of it - steering lag is gone!  It works with every wheel, have fun and fasten your seatbelts
P.S. If you are a newcomer, I suggest looking into the FAQ to get a comprehensive look into BHMS RBR World
UPDATE : Rename PC_InputFilter.ini file to 'PC_InputFilter.bak' or delete it - this is necessary!!!
UPDATE #2 : ConstantForceMultiplier line in RichardBurnsRally.ini should be deleted or marked as comment with " ; " sign - immense help, especially while countersteering (no more fighting with wheel's center )
UPDATE #3 : Digital filters thing isn't curable that easy - especially pedals vs ingame output response : more overhere
UPDATE #4 : Newest discovery (13-11-2005) : hidden MaxFFTorque setting in physics.lsp file affects FFB the most and cures the "steering lag" in some way : definately read more here !!!
Last edited by IvanThaDriver on Sun Nov 13, 06:29; edited 9 times in total |
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black f.
Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 901
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 06:23 |
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| did you checked the "PC_InputFilter.ini" to see which one is active ? |
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grumpa
Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 305
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 08:35 |
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| black f. wrote: |
| did you checked the "PC_InputFilter.ini" to see which one is active ? |
Set mine like this months ago: (posted it somewhere here)
PC_InputFilter.ini
[STEER::BUTTON_DIGITAL]
Active = false
RiseRate = 3.0
FallRate = 5.0
maxSpeedFade = 0.5
MaxSpeedFadeSpeed = 27.0
[STEER::STICK]
Active = false
Parabolic = true
maxSpeedFade = 0.5
MaxSpeedFadeSpeed = 27.0
[STEER::AXIS]
Active = true
Parabolic = false
maxSpeedFade = 0.1
MaxSpeedFadeSpeed = 100.0
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IvanThaDriver
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 1340
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 16:20 |
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What's interesting, the game works very well without PC_InputFilter.ini ...   |
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gabelaya
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 22:32 |
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I have that problem too. not try to do like you wrote, but goint to do that. Is it necessary to change "ConstantForceMultiplier" to 0 (mine is -60).
I also find some difference into your and mine rbr.ini file.
U have "UseCubicEnvironmentMaps = false"
Mine one is true. Is it so important?
_________________
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ViewSonic P225f 22"
Thrustmaster F1 ffb wheel (2nd) |
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grumpa
Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 305
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 23:10 |
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| IvanThaDriver wrote: |
| What's interesting, the game works very well without PC_InputFilter.ini ... |
Damn it - Ivan - your not just another pretty face.
I changed filename to PC_InputFilter.ini_bak just so RBR wouldn't see it and - WHOOPEE !!!!
I tried Falstone - and could get across those bridges much easier and the hairpin was easier.
I tried Joux Verte - and the hairpins are easier as well as the high speed stuff.
I tried East-West - a bit easier. I hate that place.
The car now answers the helm much quicker - now I have to practice more to get rid of the clairvoyant driving - I am doing things a bit too soon now.
It feels so much nicer now - I'm not any faster - yet - but the white knuckles are not quite so white anymore.
I suspect this will mostly benefit those of us with pathetically slow boxes.
GOOD FIND Ivan !! You come up with some pretty weird stuff - this isn't one of them.
Last Note: I bitch and moan about RBR but my goodness the FF is just absolutely incredible. Think I better turn it down a bit before it destoys my wheel. It really does feel as good as in my old rally days - love it. Couldn't imagine using RBR without it.
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geofre
Joined: 31 Jan 2004
Posts: 148
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| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 23:52 |
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I don�t wanna create new topic, so I hope that I�ll found here somebody who can help me..
For playin RBR I�m using MOMO Racing wheel, but after year of using this (for me) Superb steering wheel I�ve start recognizing problems with centering.
When I fully press brake and accelerator and turn few times left, center of steering axis move left. Sometimes more than 45 degrees.
I try to use all utillities availables on inet(including) MOMO racing fix center. But I don�t know if this utility working. Because when I run this and run DXtweak2 so after few moments doing this moves which I describe upper situation is same... Center of steering axis is moved to left.
I know that one of possible fix is to move with wheel fully left and right, but if this all what I describe will happen during SS more then 10 times it�s tiresome.
PLease I wish to found someone who has had same problem and in present can help me...
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... RBR I�m lovin�it ... |
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Flight
Joined: 05 Jun 2003
Posts: 215
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 07:09 |
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Well, I'm sure I'm not as fast as you guys, and don't know if it's the new settings or just the good feeling of having better steering settings (a placebo effect LOL).
But after trying your steering settings, I ran two runs at Harwood Forest in the '03 Impreza. First time, I came within a second of my best time which was a 4:03:07. Not bad, but I said let me try it once more. I pushed a little harder, and dropped to a 3:58:06. A full five seconds faster! I'm watching the replay now and feeling pretty good about myself. The steering definitely feels a little better. This is on my good old reliable red Logitech Wingman Formula Force (LWFF).
Thanks Ivan!
Aly |
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BWX
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 2719
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 18:25 |
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I already had the PCinput filter file set to read only and the steering filter set to false..
I renamed the file to .bak instead of .ini but nothing changed in the game.
I did all my testing with 540 degrees set on DFP.. I didn't have lag before, so maybe that is why I didn't see a difference. when I changed the saturation speed to 100% (full blocks) I felt no difference whatsoever.. Even looking at the steering wheel in the car I didn;t see a difference.
I think when the maximum fade is set to no blocks, it is actually zero.. , not 1. - especially if you rename the pc_inputfilter file.
If it is zero, saturation speed is set to no blocks, I can't see what difference maximum fade would make.. and it doesn't make any difference on my PC as far as I can tell.. I tested with it full blocks and no blocks in both axis and button, and couldn't tell there was a difference, it actually felt more laggy with the blocks set to full. 
Renaming the pc_inputfilter file is good though, it makes sure it won't change anything on you..
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Jason Moyer
Joined: 23 Dec 2002
Posts: 209
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 04:06 |
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| BWX wrote: |
| If it is zero, saturation speed is set to no blocks, I can't see what difference maximum fade would make.. and it doesn't make any difference on my PC as far as I can tell.. I tested with it full blocks and no blocks in both axis and button, and couldn't tell there was a difference, it actually felt more laggy with the blocks set to full. |
Same here. I'm not experiencing lag to begin with, but I'm 99.9% sure if you have saturation set to 0 the maximum fade setting makes no difference whatsoever.
Edit: Actually I was thinking of something else. Increasing the maximum fade for the axis your steering is on will decrease the amount of steering lock that is available as the car increases in speed, regardless of what you have the saturation set to. A higher fade setting means that as the car reaches higher speeds, you are less able to turn the wheels. The saturation setting just determines how fast you must be going when the fade stops working. If you have saturation at 0, but fade all the way up, then the fade effect will build quickly but stop quickly as well. The graph at the bottom of the page shows you exactly what these choices do.
If you want perfectly linear steering, like having the linearity slider at 100% in GPL or N2003, everything should be set to 0 and the rise/fall rates should be set to instant. I've been using that since the RBR demo and the game responds to my inputs exactly as I'd expect it to.
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Jason Moyer
Joined: 23 Dec 2002
Posts: 209
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 04:28 |
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The attached picture shows what fully linear steering looks like in RBR. I've also included shots of fully linear pedal configuration. These settings will produce instantaneous response and a 1:1 ratio between your wheel and pedal movements and their in-game response.
Note that the graph on the left is at 1. That means that there is a 1:1 ratio between your steering inputs and the inputs received by the game. If that line falls below 1, it means that you have to steer MORE in order to get the same amount of input in game - this is a bad thing if you want instantaneous control. |
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IvanThaDriver
Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 1340
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 04:56 |
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| I don't know what's up, but if I set steering filters (axis & digital for being sure) like you said (like on attached picture), I instantly experience big lag even at 5 km/h. So I stay with my previous discovery - I assume that 1 on fade graph (output) means fade on. 0 - no fade. It may be puzzling but ... who cares - it's important that what I found works. I advice everyone to check both options (both at max or both at 0) - pcinputfilter.ini is to be deleted for sure. peace |
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BWX
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 2719
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 05:35 |
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| IvanThaDriver wrote: |
| I don't know what's up, but if I set steering filters (axis & digital for being sure) like you said (like on attached picture), I instantly experience big lag even at 5 km/h. So I stay with my previous discovery - I assume that 1 on fade graph (output) means fade on. 0 - no fade. It may be puzzling but ... who cares - it's important that what I found works. I advice everyone to check both options (both at max or both at 0) - pcinputfilter.ini is to be deleted for sure. peace |
Yeah - I believe that happens too you, but I have no idea why.. I was doing same as Jason in his post above since I got the game.. for "linear" steering. I use filters for throttle and brake though- just personal preference.
Ivan, what are your PC specs? Also have you tried to reinstall and see if you get the same lag? You really shouldn't I don't think... with everything set to instant and zero filters. Maybe it is a bug that conflicts with other settings?
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ReDi
Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 07:23 |
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Here's a funny thing to confuse things a little more: My PC_InputFilter.ini looks as follows:
[STEER::BUTTON_DIGITAL]
Active = true
...
[STEER::STICK]
Active = true
...
[STEER::AXIS]
Active = false
...
I play the game with a MS FF wheel and experience no lag whatsoever. But I do have an Athlon XP3000+ with 1024MB RAM and a fairly fast nVidia FX5900. |
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Jack57
Joined: 14 Feb 2002
Posts: 561
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 10:15 |
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Yup - good find Ivan. A noticeable improvement here - even the FF feels better I believe. I just did a 6:18.70 on East West inthe Scooby 2000, which is a considerable inprovement on my previous record in rhe Xsara
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