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Bramski25T
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 10
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 Posted: Thu Sep 06, 20:46 |
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Has anyone else spent any time experimenting with the effectsetup.xml in the forcefeedback folder in the dirt directory. It's similar to the force feedback settings that you can edit in the .plr files in rFactor and GTR2 etc.. I've been trying to get a feedback similar to Richard burns rally and I definitely think it's possible.
Theres a lot of parameters that are editable and some really make a huge difference to the way the cars feel. The only downside with so many variables is that it's easy to get lost and lose a nice feeling setup if you're a persistent tweaker like me so save often and take note of what you are changing
Here's what I'm using at the moment on my DFP at 400* rotation and 100% FFB. Remember to backup your original files before editing them. I also set the basefriction to -10 in the device setup.xml in the same folder which gives a lighter but still firm feel when the car isn't moving. Im still trying to dial it in just right so I'll post back with any progress.
The ingame FFB settings can be set changed to suit different vehicle types so start with all 3 in the middle and dial it in from there.
I use a steering setting of +2.0 and 65%saturation ingame and it's not too bad. I only got the game 2 days ago and most of it has been spent tweaking the ffb but im enjoying it immensly. Hopefully some of the other guys on here will come up with some good FFB parameters and we can get this a little bit closer to feeling like RBR.
Last edited by Bramski25T on Fri Sep 07, 03:34; edited 1 time in total
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Bramski25T
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 03:33 |
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Im currently running 270* now on my DFP at 100% FFB 0& spring 0% damper 0& centering spring in the profile manager. 0% linear and 100% saturation in game and it feels superb, no lag at all pinpoint accuracy going into apexes and holding long skids and powerslides and you can feel the weight transfer and bumps very well now.
Use the attached files for edited DIRT force feedback settings and see what you think, Just rename the ""C:\Program Files\Codemasters\DiRT\forcefeedback folder to and drop the attached foder into your dirt directory and your good to go. You still have to set the forcefeedback settings in game for different cars as some like less weight and more strength and vice versa.
Don't know if Ive been smokin too much but from what I can tell Dirt seems to suffer from a bit of a flaw on the PC and that is a lack of an adjustable steering lock value per car. Every car has the same amount of steering lock which is 270* of rotation lock to lock. The only way I can obtain proper 1:1 linear steering is by setting my DFP rotation to 270* in the profile manager, then setting the linear to 0.0 in game with 100% saturation.
I prefer to use 400* rotation in my other sims but no matter what I try with the linearity and saturation I cannot get 400* to feel right, theres just a whole chunk of sloppy nonsense in the middle of the wheel or the steering is so sensitive that you fishtail all over the shop like a madman.
I spent a while in game in the external view looking at how the front wheels were matching my actual DFP rotation until I arrived at this conclusion. Setting a rotation on the DFP to anything higher than 270 loses linearity regardless of the linearity and saturation settings in game and as soon as the linearity goes it messes up the force feedback.
The only way around this that I can think of is for an option to set a universal steering lock value in game that would allow us to match it with the rotation of the DFP, G25 etc.. whilst maintaining the 0% linear and 100% satiuation values.
 forcefeedback.rar - 4.08 KB
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black f.
Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 762
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 04:04 |
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is ok we all have our moments of madness, atleast you know what you miss when you adventure in the sterile world of codemasters.
i hope you'll came to your senses and stop looking for trees in the desert.
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Bramski25T
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 10:05 |
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| black f. wrote: |
is ok we all have our moments of madness, atleast you know what you miss when you adventure in the sterile world of codemasters.
i hope you'll came to your senses and stop looking for trees in the desert. |
Okay, seeing as how were getting all cryptic. If you'll take a few moments to try the settings I posted you'll see that theres an oasis amongst all this dirt. Not only have I found trees in the desert but theres an orchard and a vineyard as well.
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black f.
Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 762
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 14:19 |
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you may be surprised with what i've tried, but anyway, note the feedback in Dirt is "rendered" while in rbr the wheel is plugged to rack "directly" so to speak.
no intention to spoil your fun btw, if you have some programing experience you can try the dxinput proxy project and take over the controls and feedback.
https://www.mikoweb.eu/index.php?node=28
ps. vineyards may help though 
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Bramski25T
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 16:23 |
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Did you try the setup I posted?
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black f.
Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 762
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 18:18 |
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allright you seem to miss the point.
here's the RBR FFB:
ground parameters -> tyre -> steering wheel
and here is Dirt:
ground parameters -> tyre
ground parameters -> steering wheel
dirt fakes the steering forces, and the fact you have FFB effects parameters to play with is exactly what is "wrong" and is exactly what RBR is NOT using and as long as you have those effects there you can't get the RBR feeling youre looking for, is just imposible by definition.
| Code: |
<!-- Surface vibrations
Describes grip and effect if car is travellinng over a specific surface. Sample freq is scaled with speed.
scale= effect scale
name= surface name to play effect over
grip= multiplier of tyre forces over the surface
thresholdLow= lower travelling speed threshold in m/s to scale effect in between
thresholdHigh= higher travelling speed threshold in m/s to scale effect in between
freqLow= Freq range low
freqHigh= Freq renge high
scaleLow= envelope scale low
scaleHigh= envelope scale high
length= sample length
sample= name of sample to play-->
<FFBSurface scale="0.1" name="TARMAC" grip="1.0" thresholdLow="5.0" thresholdHigh="10.0" freqLow="26.0" freqHigh="52.0" scaleLow="0.0" scaleHigh="1.0" length="0.1" sample="tarmac"/>
<FFBSurface scale="0.71" name="GRASS" grip="0.4" thresholdLow="1.5" thresholdHigh="5.0" freqLow="10.0" freqHigh="25.0" scaleLow="0.5" scaleHigh="1.0" length="0.1" sample="grass"/>
<!-- NEW -->
<FFBSurface scale="0.31" name="MUD" grip="0.4" thresholdLow="2.5" thresholdHigh="15.0" freqLow="5.0" freqHigh="26.0" scaleLow="0.9" scaleHigh="1.0" length="0.1" sample="mud"/>
<FFBSurface scale="0.31" name="GRAVEL" grip="0.6" thresholdLow="2.5" thresholdHigh="15.0" freqLow="4.0" freqHigh="24.0" scaleLow="0.6" scaleHigh="0.8" length="0.1" sample="gravela"/>
<FFBSurface scale="0.31" name="GRAVEL" grip="0.6" thresholdLow="2.5" thresholdHigh="15.0" freqLow="4.0" freqHigh="24.0" scaleLow="0.6" scaleHigh="0.8" length="0.1" sample="gravelb"/>
<FFBSurface scale="0.31" name="SAND" grip="0.4" thresholdLow="2.5" thresholdHigh="15.0" freqLow="2.0" freqHigh="12.0" scaleLow="0.6" scaleHigh="1.0" length="0.1" sample="sand"/>
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do you see it? those parameters should have NOT been there, not for FFB;
they should be used for tyre/track interaction which eventually yell the forces in steering system and which will serve as input for FFB, is as simple as that.
i have no doubt you will get better settings for DIRT in the end but if you target a RBR like FFB ... just forget it, what you need is just not there.
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Bramski25T
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 21:15 |
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Im not missing the point at all Black. Im well aware how the RBR FFB works. Im also well aware that the RBR FFB Sucked big time until someone realised that you had to adjust the maxFFtorque parameter in the physics.lsp before it came alive.
What Im saying is that these parameters in Dirt can be tweaked and even zero'd out so that all you can feel is the Caster and trail and suspension working if that is what you desire. I've played RBR to death as well as every other sim that's been released and I can honestly say that Dirts FFB is excellent and has potential to be even better if everyone chips in and delves a bit deeper into the settings.
I'll ask you again if you've tried the settings I've posted and if you haven't then I suggest you do before posting again as Im not interested in wasting energy debating why I can't be done, rather I'd hope that you would at least try the settings and see how you would like to improve them, or just say they're crapola and dont waste any more of your time on the subject.
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black f.
Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 762
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 21:52 |
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"rbr ffb sucked big time" = rant.
i've never used that parameter, tried it and went back to default as it seems strong enough.
i know for a fact dirt uses faked ffb and i see absolutely no reason to try another settings which will be fakes as well, why should i lie myself?
if you like what you do then you're not wasting your time, again, i'm sure your settings can only be better then defaults, good luck.
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Bramski25T
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 22:50 |
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| black f. wrote: |
"rbr ffb sucked big time" = rant.
i |
lol get off your horse I love Richard burns, I'll still be playing that when Im collecting my pension.
So you won't even try the settings? Ignorance is bliss I suppose but do yourself a favour and open up richard burns Physics.lsp and look at all the parameters in there in the material manager section.
All the parameters in there dictate to your steering wheel the forces that each surface exerts upon it. Theres information regarding friction forces from each surface, gravel, grass, water etc.. not unlike the parameters in the Dirt effects.xml. If we could try and extract useful information from there that could be applied to Dirt then we could use it to enhance the feel of the cars.
Im not trying to be a hardhead here but I know what Im talking about and I wouldn't waste my time if I didn't think it was worth while. There's a lot of potential in tweaking the effects.xml and if Codies bring out a patch to allow steering lock adjustment then you could have superb ffb at 720* 1:1 linear steering.
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Bramski25T
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Fri Sep 07, 23:08 |
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Okay, Im mistaken about the linearity, but it's a good mistake, you can get 1:1 linear steeringon any rotation, just set the rotation in the logitech profiler, then set ingame to linear 0.0% and saturation 100% and it's 1:1
Cmon black f. get your hands dirty and give it a go, you know you want to 
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black f.
Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 762
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 02:08 |
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| Bramski25T wrote: |
Ignorance is bliss I suppose but do yourself a favour and open up richard burns Physics.lsp and look at all the parameters in there in the material manager section.
All the parameters in there dictate to your steering wheel the forces that each surface exerts upon it. Theres information regarding friction forces from each surface, gravel, grass, water etc.. |
thats where you are wrong. those materials inside physics.lsp are track physics materials and they dictate the tyre/ground interaction not the steering wheel ffb, go on, change them and tell me how exactly the ffb is influenced
| Bramski25T wrote: |
| Codies bring out a patch to allow steering lock adjustment then you could have ... |
lol, you can only wish codemasters are as ignorants about dirt as i am about rbr, but i guess you're not that lucky.
| Bramski25T wrote: |
| Cmon black f. get your hands dirty and give it a go, you know you want to |
ofcourse i do and here is my solution:
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Description: |
| Size: 72.55 KB |
| Viewed: 54 Time(s) |
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Bramski25T
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 03:19 |
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Are you serious, after all the chitter chatter you still havent tried the settings I postedpost and you post a screenie of RBR chugging at 19fps? do you even own CMR Dirt?
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black f.
Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 762
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 06:56 |
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well you said i'm ignorant, those 19fps should be enough to see i'm not.
i'm sorry, now you do waste your time.
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Bramski25T
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sat Sep 08, 15:51 |
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Seeing as you're the one wasting your time banging on about a game you dont even own I'll steer clear of you and your fuzzy logic for the remainder of this thread. All im looking for in this thread is for people to experiment and see if they can enhance the FFB.
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