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C4 Physics

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delu77

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 143

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 09:35

As we already know, C4 has some physics problem.... Does someone is working on it? I feel the car...too much easy to drive, no understeering or problems...seems an arcade model...is it right? When I drove the first time the Focus 06 I was always off the road, and with this I beat all my best times....what's happaned? Maybe I've emproved my skill? Thanks M8! _________________ Richard, Colin....We will miss you for ever and ever... - My downloads: https://bhms.racesimcentral.net/developer/3608 - Asus A8nSli S939 - AMD 64 3500 - 1Gb+1Gb DDr400 - ATI X1650 PRO 256MB PCIX

Giorgio262

Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 243

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 16:30

Perhaps you really got better. Personally I find C4 and focus06 are pretty much levelled as for performances and handling. Both of them are easier and feel faster to drive compared to other older cars, but, after all, they're also the latest breed of wrc cars, perhaps they ought to be and feel like this. Honestly, you don't want all the cars to feel and drive the same. There has to be some difference between, say, group A and the most recent wrc class cars.

grumpa

Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 298

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 01:06

One of the reasons these cars are faster is that people are increasing "Reffriction" in [surface].lsp files. In other words - they are increasing grip everywhere, The C4 for example has been increased by 5% - Refric = 1.05. Take a 5 minute = 300 sec stage - that equals a possible 15 second quicker stage time if it is directly proportional than if refric was left at 1.00 for the same 'car'. Now tweak the VE and you can have a much faster car than orig. RBR cars. Not saying it's right or wrong - that's just what's going on. At least nobody has increased it to make it Colin McCrae XX. A couple of years ago the RBR purists would have burned you at the stake.

Giorgio262

Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 243

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 01:52

And what do you think about, say the focus 06 and the C4? Do you feel like they should be slower and less stable? Or do you feel, after all, these are supposed to be newer and generally better cars so perhaps it's acceptable that they're like this in RBR? I really can't see that much a difference yet. In RBR I'm still the weakest link. So when I push and crash it's because I didn't react quick enough, or was too heavy on the pedals or simply did something wrong. Just a few days ago I was trying Cote d'Arbeoz with the C4, I have an old personl record of 2:35 something, well, C4 or not, I did fine in the first section but just couldn't make it in the next 2, the car felt nervous (currently default filter settings for the steering, equals better handling on loose surfaces but causes some excessive liveliness on fast section of tarmac stages) and after several attempts I quit at 2:43. So yes these 2 cars feel faster and grippier, but nowhere near like arcade compared to the original RBR physics, in my opinion.

delu77

Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 143

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 09:42

@ Grumpa Thanks man I've understand. But I have tried cote d'arbroz stage with focus and C4, defult settings except for the maximum steering angle (but equal for both). Pushing hard I've had about 15 secs delay with Focus from C4....(worst time for Focus I mean) and my skill is the same.... C4....where you point the wheel it goes, and with others you have to work a lot with a steering wheel to keep them on the road... My question is...is it a physic that copy the original one? I repeat as posted before that C4 seems too easy to drive. I'm agree with you, Giorgio, when you say that modern WRC cars are easiest to drive then the oldest. And that's why my times with Focus are better than 306. But this one, C4, I repeat and it's my thinking, seems again soooooo easy to drive.... _________________ Richard, Colin....We will miss you for ever and ever... - My downloads: https://bhms.racesimcentral.net/developer/3608 - Asus A8nSli S939 - AMD 64 3500 - 1Gb+1Gb DDr400 - ATI X1650 PRO 256MB PCIX

AolBites

Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 229

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 10:11

well, not having tried Any new cars at all [yea really] I must say, after many attempts at creating setups for the 2003 Subaru, what Ive come up with is so far much easier to drive than the original that its almost impossible to drive the original setup for me .. so should you think perhaps of generating optimal setups? I think new cars should have new tires, if the new tires have more grip, well, thats not the problem with the car. tires have evolved and new cars should have new tires ... and cars in the same year on the same tire should be using the same tire ? right? tires have their own files/data, and all cars on the same tires are on the same tires [?duh?] why are cars being created with different friction? its the tires that have changed over the years[so change tire characteristics?] .... all cars can [should] change is damping and geometry.. [and theres not enough control of damping rates in RBR] I've got much more to think about on this ... theres so many variables in this sim its hard to take it all into account ... anyhow I've yet to drive the car so...

Ricky McHawk

Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 16777215

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 11:57

Man, I got the same idea here... when I drove C4 for the first time, I thought the physics were at least... odd... the car has too much grip; it turns with that... strange precision even if you're using keyboard (my case)... other thing I also noticed, this physics completely mufles the "TransmissionDiff" sound (which I think its one of the most realistic sound in RBR)... So... +1 for a new C4 physics Btw... I think the Escort physics are odd too _________________ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icyPUY01uT0 -> Accident 14/10... Clio... I was in the rear left seat D: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlmmwpeh_bw -> 15 min later we were already laughing

grumpa

Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 298

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 22:09

Oh damn - didn't want to open up Pandora's box. First off - the C4 comes from the Czechs - in looking at some of their physics for certain cars thay have seen fit to change stuff to make the cars feel more "real". This is not good this is not bad. Can't remember where I read it - maybe a readme - but they are quite honest in stating their intentions - they clearly state the above - their intent is to make the cars feel more real in their opinion. They have not gone nuts doing it - they have kept it quite reasonable. I have no problem with that. They make you use their physics for their online I think just to keep things fair. Again - I have no problem with that. They have not changed things to make it CMR XX. Let me make it perfectly clear,to paraphrase Richard Nixon, I have no problem with what they have done. They have mainly altered from the RBR norm things to do with mass. The suspension geometry is really just more of the usual RBR stuff - no huge changes in that respect. - AOL - changing tire parameters gets tedious - if you can even figure out what a bunch of them actually are. Changing various stiffnesses - tread coverage - tread width - tread elasticity - tread depth is easy and beneficial. Makes a big difference for Japan and Australia. But it is easier to change reffriction because it is a global change - it is a multiplier for the final end grip. RBR makes it very very clumsy to change tire parameters. It just never was setup to allow decent tire choices. I always include tire parameters in<surface>.lsp BUT if you run complete rallies these get overwritten when you go to service. It is a real pain in the ass. I never run complete rallies - did enough of that for real - I just run separate stages all the time - but for anyone running complete rallies the only thing you can do is change Pirelli and Michelin files -and then you would need one for each country using gravel - just an absolute pain in the ass. The constant shuffling / renaming files gets confusing and quite tedious. I can expand on the mass stuff if you like - but it is tedious - and this post is already too long.

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