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Luke
Location: England
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 21
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 Posted: Tue Mar 09, 17:51 |
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This might be the best F1 simultion out, but it's very dissapointing. Is it me or do the cars not seem to slide, and then when they do it's uncontrolable and too hard to catch. It might just be be, or my setup, and i know in real life its not easy. But when you are watching on TV in the T Cam you can see that they slide a lot more than in GP4, escpecially under braking.
Is there any patchs or updates that can fix this, or do i just have to wait till someone else makes a better F1 sim.
I wish Papyrus would make an F1 game  |
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Renaz
Location: Lithuania
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 18:25 |
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| F1 sliding? Are you sure that you are playing F1? Sliding in rally is ok, but F1... |
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Luke
Location: England
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 19:19 |
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LOL
Thats what most people think. I don't mean sliding intentialy. If you watch F1 from the Tcam in real life, especially in the wet, you will notice that they often have to use oppostie lock, they don't slide much, and you never really notice it from any other cameras, but i can guarentee that F1 cars slide |
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Toma
Joined: 28 Jun 2003
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 19:44 |
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You should learn something about how F1 car works.
First it doesnt slide or this should be minimum at the lover speed or breaking.It could sliding with front wheel there isnt much weiht of a car.Wings which car have produce ower-preasure which hold car to the track as it is possibile.When (at higher speeds) for any reason loose this ower-preasure  car will flatout without any sliding worning.
A lot of game doesnt have correct physics in this aspect.
So if you wont slide drive rally or something iqual.
Regards |
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Luke
Location: England
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 17:18 |
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NO you should learn something about F1.
If you dont believe me, tell me your email address and i'll send you a video of Montoya around Sepang, and you will see just how much the car oversteers and how often he has to use opposite lock to correct the slide.
Last edited by Luke on Wed Mar 10, 21:42; edited 1 time in total |
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Jure Zagoricnik
BHMS Team
Location: Slovenia
Joined: 26 Jan 2002
Posts: 1590
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 18:06 |
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Montoya came from CART and it's used to sliding. Compare it to Schumacher's lap and you won't see any slides. Maybe only when braking into a slow corner.
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Jure Zagoricnik
Blackhole Motorsports
https://bhms.racesimcentral.net
Crystal Madness
https://www.crystalmadness.com |
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Dark John
Location: Poland
Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 18:48 |
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OK guys let me give you two numbers:15 and 100. What are they? Percentages of tyre slide that give most grip on tarmac and gravel. Let`s leave the second number alone and concentrate on the first. 15% slide actually means "riding on the rubber" that is you don`t leave black marks and you probably can`t hear any tyre squeal (depends on the tyre). This is very difficult to do (hell maybe even impossible) on modern performance slicks as they are very unforgiving: the margin for error is extremely small. And if you do something wrong you`ll spin out. Street tyres (especially high profile ones) are much more forgiving and even I am able to go through a long 90` "riding on the rubber" without actually going sideways. Now if you look at tyres in GPL you`ll notice that those are NOT modern race tyres. Sliding with them was much easier and was used more often (all the time?). They provided less grip but they lost that grip in a more progressive manner. Rally drivers slide even on tarmac because rally tracks are bumpy and dirty and it`s better to "force" a slide than to suddenly suffer a crash because the slicks became "unstuck" in the middle of a turn.
_________________
"It`s better to enter a corner slower, but on the right gear and both hands on the steering wheel"
Sobieslaw Zasada, Polish European Rally Champion, 1966(Steyr Puch factory team), 1967(Porsche factory team), 1971(BMW) |
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Luke
Location: England
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 21:25 |
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FFS. Why dont you listen. F1 cars that get oversteer slide, then they have to be caught over wise they will spin. Why would coming from CART make Montoya want to slide, the more the car is sliding the slower (in theory) it would be, because instead of travelling forward you are going sideways and would loose momentum.
Anyway i also have a clip of Villenueve from 2001 and he gets a bit of oversteer on the exit of turn one. If you want me to prove it i'll send you one of the clips.
Last edited by Luke on Wed Mar 10, 22:04; edited 1 time in total |
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Luke
Location: England
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 21:39 |
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Ok
I just searched to see if there was a place that can explain sliding in F1, read the stuff below and then you will realise that F1 cars do slide.
I got the info from https://www.atlasf1.com/99/dec29/gray.html
"When the driver turns the steering wheel to take a corner, he requires grip. Without such adhesion the tyre turned would simply slide in the direction the car is currently traveling rather than change its direction. When the steering wheel is turned, the road wheel is turned either right or left. Most of the wheel turns as expected, but at the contact patch the tyre resists this movement because of its grip with the road - you can feel this resistance when trying to turn the non power assisted wheels of a stationary car. You therefore have the contact patch pointing in the direction of the road, and the rest of the tyre pointing in the direction it wants to go - a situation which is possible because the tyre is elastic and can twist."
"When there is too much side force for the tyre to cope with, and it can no longer deform, it begins to slide on the surface, and the car begins to slide outwards from the apex of the corner. Once this happens, all is not lost - for the good driver that is! The tyre still has significant cornering force, and the driver can re-claim the adhesion and stop the slide by reducing the side force with opposite lock (rotating the wheel in the opposite direction to that in which the car is traveling). Although this is spectacular to watch, it aint the right thing to do! A car should be driven on the limit of adhesion and not over it. " |
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Luke
Location: England
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Wed Mar 10, 21:44 |
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I also found a video of Sato's qualifying lap from melbourne. It shows clearly how much oversteer you can get in an F1 car.
You can get the video from https://www.f1onboard.com/
Another reason why some drivers like Sato or Montoya will get oversteer is their setup. Shumacher has lots of experience setting up a car, where as Montoya and Sato are still relativly new to F1 compared to Shumacher. |
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Luke
Location: England
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Thu Mar 11, 17:44 |
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OK
I think i proved my point.
So back to my question, Is there any patch or update that will make the handling more realistic ? |
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Luke
Location: England
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 18:55 |
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| ????????? |
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Luke
Location: England
Joined: 01 Feb 2004
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Sun Mar 14, 22:45 |
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OK does anyone even come to this forum, cos no one EVER posts anything
 ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? |
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Raven159
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sat Mar 27, 16:13 |
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I Absolutely and totally agree with u there luke F1 Cars do oversteer! Remember Button in Hungary Qualifying THAT was a Slide.... and wen the drivers are on the Wrong Tyres in the Wet they oversteer also..... i see the point people are making about the fact that F1 cars dont slide but its not like they Cant Slide as seen in gp4...... and because of this it has put me off GP4 and i use F1C instead  .. Maybe if the was a patch or update for the game as sed earlier it could be so much better. oh and papyrus SHUD make an f1 game cause they are excellent at Driving Sims |
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Bongeye
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Thu Apr 01, 14:59 |
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Yep, there is no question that F1 cars slide--all race cars for that matter.
The trouble is, you can't actually see it much on tele because of the angles, and the fact that the camera is moving.
Schumacher actually slides more than most. He sets the car up into a gentle power drift and pivots the car round a corner on gentle oversteer. His throttle- and car- control is so exceptional that he can do this lap in, lap out.
You can't get an F1 car very sideways because the aerodynamics are designed to work when the car is presented square to the oncoming airflow. Because of this, tyre manufacturers build very little slip angle into the tyre, which makes it even more pointless to get the car sideways.
Just because getting sideways slows them down, doesn't mean that they are not sliding.
But the simple fact is that any competent driver from F1 down slides his car in a four wheel drift. If you can't see this--even on TV--look closer, or bother yourself to either read something on the subject, or attend an F1 test.
So Luke, you have my sympathies. Its worrying that people can be so into something and still have no clear idea of the mechanics involved... 
If you need any assistance on your lack of sliding, I should be able to help, but I'll need to know what you are doing at the moment... |
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